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Valerie Julliand was appointed UN Resident Coordinator and UNDP’s Resident Representative to Nepal in 2016. As she left the country after finishing her term at the end of September for Indonesia, where she will serve as the new UN Resident Coordinator, Julliand recounted her experience in Nepal in this email exchange with APEX’s Biswas Baral. Here she describes her experience of dealing with the aftermath of 2015 earthquake, women’s empowerment, Nepal’s federal challenges, the country’s development aspirations, and her overall experience living and working here.

Helping the country deal with the devastating impact of the 2015 earthquakes was one of your first major challenges in Nepal. Can you share some of your reflections from that time? What were the lessons?

I came to Nepal at a time when the country, and city that was to become my home, were recovering from the devastation of the earthquake. Months had passed, but the recovery efforts were still very much ongoing and of course reconstruction to some extent continues to this day. In the immediate aftermath of the earthquake, the UN system began to work with the government to ensure a quick and effective response. The priority of course was to provide life-saving humanitarian assistance to those most effected and to start rebuilding homes and communities.

Nepal chose an owner-driven reconstruction approach, allowing for people to build their homes back with the government’s funding support. As a result of which some 500,000 houses have been rebuilt, an amazing achievement really. Given the enormous scale of the crisis, the choice of using a uniform approach to reconstruction is understandable, but it is important to also reflect on its limitations. The inequality and diversity among those impacted by the earthquakes meant that there was also a need for a more differentiated and targeted approach. This need was highlighted by the UN and humanitarian community at large, and it was our role to support the government in ensuring the necessary readjustments to reach those furthest behind.

It is so important for us to remember that sometimes in our efforts to reach the largest number of people, the most vulnerable and marginalized might struggle to access the relief and assistance they need. A female-headed household or person with a disability is likely to have specific needs for support. I am so glad that as part of the earthquake response efforts, we were able to establish the Community Feedback Project with the support of the British Embassy (previously DfID), because this allowed the humanitarian community, including the government to hear from affected communities. It essentially brought their voices to the decision-making table and I think this made our response stronger and more adapted to the needs of those we aimed to serve. This has continued in humanitarian response efforts since then, including the 2017 floods and the Covid-19 response.

The biggest lesson of course is that so much of the life saving work happens prior to a disaster and that is why it is so important that the government has put in place new legislation and policy on disaster risk reduction and management. What is essential now, is to ensure that this is implemented, and legislation enforced. I see a great opportunity provided by federalism in strengthening the disaster risk reduction and management efforts, as this is an effort that requires all three tiers of government from the federal to the local.

You have been a strong advocate of women’s representation in decision-making bodies. The UN played a vital role in ensuring greater representation of women in the last local elections. Why was this important?

Women make up half of the population of the world and of course, half of the population of Nepal. The importance of women being in elected office or present at the decision-making table really should need no justification. Nonetheless, across the globe women’s leadership and political participation is restricted and we are underrepresented in elected office, the civil service, and private sector. As the UN, it remains one of our key priorities to change this, because we cannot claim to have democratic and inclusive societies until women are allowed to participate fully and equally in decision making across private and public life.

Nepal has made enormous progress in women’s representation in political office, with 14,000 women (including 6,500 Dalit women) holding 41 percent of all locally elected positions. This really is the result of the unrelenting work of the Nepali women’s movement. Though the numbers changed overnight, the gender discriminatory norms and stereotypes that have been barriers to women’s equal participation unfortunately have not. Thus, we must work together to build an enabling environment for these women to be able to deliver on their mandates. They must be allowed to do their work safely, their voices respected and heard, and their skills and leadership recognized.

As the UN, it is not only important to provide the necessary support to increase the skills and capacities of elected representatives, irrespective of gender, but to support in building an enabling environment that allows women leaders to succeed, and for this we must together transform discriminatory norms. It is only with this, that we can truly build a gender equal and inclusive democracy.  

Nepal has just started on its federal journey and it’s been a tough start. What do you see as the major challenges for Nepal’s federal project? How do we overcome them?

I must say that being witness to the federalization process in Nepal and seeing the engagement and commitment of the provincial and local governments has been a great privilege. I have been particularly encouraged to see the dedication to localize the Sustainable Development Goals to inform development planning across the country. Of course, the transition to federalism requires years to unfold and many challenges remain, however this process is essential for the realization of the commitments to equality and inclusion of the government of Nepal.

Federalism is not only a process of changing government structures, laws and policies, but of changing mindsets and perhaps that is the most difficult challenge ahead. This requires a change in the thinking of each and every person living in this country and a recognition of the incredible opportunities that bringing political decision making and governance structure closer to the people provides. I look forward to following how the foundations of a federal Nepal become ever stronger in the years to come.

In your view, what three or four areas should Nepal focus on in order to meet its development aspirations? And how can the international community help?

I am happy to have seen that Nepal’s development aspirations and vision really focus on inclusion and building a more equal and just society. With a constitution such as Nepal’s, the foundations for this are strong. Of course, multiple challenges remain and areas which will need focus from the government, civil society, and the private sector, and of course the international development community. First, there is a need to start consciously shifting discriminatory norms and practices that continue to prevail in Nepal and which marginalize women and girls and other historically excluded groups. Gender and social inclusion responsive planning and policy making is needed irrespective of sector. Only by dismantling historical structures of discrimination can Nepal truly build a sustainable future for all. This is not easy of course, but I believe Nepal is on the right path that it must see through to the end.

A key challenge which remains, and one which intricately relates to gender and social inclusion, is that of access to justice. A functioning justice system is key not only to protect and guarantee the human rights of all citizens, delivering justice to both victims and accused, but essential for accelerating progress across the 17 SDGs and realizing the Agenda 2030.  Justice is also the most efficient way to ensure changes in—and counteract—the norms and practices detrimental to many groups in Nepal, pending the change of mentality and mindsets.

As I have mentioned earlier, for Nepal to truly build the foundations for a sustainable future, it must learn the lessons of its past and ensure that disaster risk reduction and management is given the attention and emphasis it needs. If progress made is regularly lost due to disaster and environmental degradation, not only are precious resources wasted, but the lives of the very people the country wants to protect are placed in danger.

Besides earthquake, Nepal is also prone to natural disasters like floods and landslides and the new effects of climate change. How do we mitigate these risks and what role has the UN played in this?

The vulnerability to climate change and natural disasters, together with continued environmental degradation, poses a real threat to Nepal and its people, and endangers the gains made towards achieving the sustainable development goals. The UN has a normative role and technical expertise in policy development and capacity building in the areas of climate and disaster risk reduction, effective emergency response, sound environmental management, and sustainable recovery. It is one of the core areas of our work in our collaboration with the government. The UN in Nepal has a unique partnership with a consortium of Universities led by Durham University, on a project to examine how to use local knowledge and new interdisciplinary science to inform better decision making and reduce the impacts of multi-hazards in Nepal. This partnership has been seen as a model in the region.

The UN works on strengthening the capacity of national and sub-national levels as well as local communities to mitigate risks of, prepare for, respond to and recover and rebuild from the effect of disasters and climate change. It is important to remember, that disasters impact people differently and often women and those from marginalized groups are disproportionately impacted in crisis. Pre-existing and intersecting inequalities mean that women and girls, persons with disabilities or a Dalit person will experience adverse consequences and have different resources, capacities and coping strategies than others.

As the UN, it is our responsibility to highlight these needs before and after the crisis and work with the government to address them. Most importantly, women and those from marginalized groups must be provided an opportunity to participate fully in the planning and implementation of disaster risk reduction and management and humanitarian response. This makes for a stronger and more effective approach.

As I mentioned earlier, Nepal has put in place a strong legislative and policy framework on disaster risk reduction and management. What is important now is to ensure the implementation of that legislation—so that roads and houses are not built in landslide prone areas and are seismic resistant, and environmental degradation is curtailed.

What has been the UN’s role in helping Nepal deal with the ongoing Covid-19 crisis? What are our major challenges? How do we better equip ourselves to deal with such pandemics in the future?

As is the case globally, the UN’s Covid-19 health response is led by WHO, building on its long-standing partnership with the Ministry of Health and Population. In the context of the pandemic WHO has provided technical support across a wide range of areas including strengthening data generation and management; developing necessary guidelines and protocols; strengthening laboratory capacities; and ensuring regular, reliable and accessible communication to the general public. Across the world, health systems have been placed under enormous pressure and this is no different for Nepal. Here the government has been able to take a number of steps to strengthen its health care system to cope with the pandemic, capacities which we hope will remain as the country recovers. 

As we know, the Covid-19 crisis goes beyond a health crisis and as such the overall UN response addresses water and sanitation needs, education, nutrition and protection to name a few.  Another central focus for the UN is of course in supporting the government to address the socio-economic impacts of the crisis and to ensure a timely and inclusive recovery that focuses on the needs of those most affected. We must never forget the individual lives impacted—the women now isolated at home with their abusers, the meals skipped by families as they cope with lost livelihoods, or the migrants who have not only lost their jobs but are stigmatized and discriminated upon their return home.   

As the UN, we have just completed a socio-economic framework to guide our work in the coming 18 months to support the country in its long-term recovery of the crisis. It is important to remain vigilant, ensuring that progress made towards the Sustainable Development Goals is not lost in the aftermath of the pandemic and rather that we use this as an opportunity to address the systemic weaknesses and long-standing inequalities in society.

In terms of your last question on equipping ourselves, I really think it is time for us to critically reflect individually and collectively how we treat the people and our planet. I hope that this pushes us towards taking effective action for a more sustainable and inclusive future, but I do fear that we are so stuck in our ways that real change will be hard to come by. What is needed is a change in mindsets, an openness to address the wrongs of the past, and commit to a carbon neutral and environmentally sustainable future.

What overall impression of Nepal and Nepalis do you take back? Can you tell us about some of your more memorable moments here?

My most treasured memories are of the encounters and conversations I have had with people across this country, hearing of their experiences and I am grateful to each of them for their trust. The people of Nepal are hospitable, friendly and kind; it is this that I will take with me as I leave my home of four years. I have come to love this city and country, its incredible landscapes, diversity of culture and people.

One piece of equipment that has long been on your wish-list?
 As of now, it would be an HD optic macro lens for my phone.

If you could go anywhere in the world where would it be and why?
Actually I was planning to go on a road trip to Ladakh with my wife before the pandemic hit. When everything is over, that’s where we will be going to recharge ourselves.

What is your dream job?
‘Lights, camera, action’ has always been my dream job and I am fortunate I get to do what I love.

Are you a morning or a night person?
Definitely a night person. Most of my work-related ideas and concepts are drafted at midnight.
 

Three favorite artists to work with for music videos?
Every professional artist but to take names, it would be—Reema Biswokarma, Alisha Rai and, Nirajan Pradhan.

If you ever make a movie, what genre would it be?
Romance.
 

Say you’re filthy-rich already and don’t have to work, what would you do with your time?
I don’t think I can stay without working.
 

If you could choose two famous Nepali folks to have dinner with, who would they be?
With utmost respect, Kulman Ghising and Mahabir Pun. They are an inspiration for every Nepali citizen.
 

Would you rather give up your smartphone or your computer?
I can never imagine going to the bathroom without my phone. So I will give up my computer.
 

If you could instantly become an expert in something, what would it be at?
I’d wish to be a great dancer and rapper.

Nepal has been carrying out decennial population census since 1911, with the next one, the country’s 12^th, due in June 2021. The body mandated to conduct it is the Central Bureau of Statistics (CBS), a government agency under the National Planning Commission. Bureau officials say they are working on war-footing to make the census possible, yet it’s a tough task in the middle of a pandemic. And will the census also include Kalapani? Kamal Dev Bhattarai spoke to Rudra Suwal, senior economist and former CBS Deputy Director General. 

What is the importance of census?

There are multiple dimensions to and benefits of census. First, census is a constitutional obligation as it is on the basis of population that electoral constituencies and number of electoral candidates are fixed. Second, the census provides a complete picture of the country’s socio-economic and statistical status. Census is the only way to get a picture of each and every household and reflects the country’s social and economic conditions.

Third, census is a key guiding document for other sectoral research, study, and analysis. Fourth, census serves as a key document for policy and programs. Fifth, it is important for comparative evaluation of social, economic and other conditions between different countries.

How has Covid-19 affected our census preparations?

As per my knowledge, all activities are on schedule. The CBS has completed a pilot census. Even if one activity is interrupted the entire process will be affected. But if we don’t have more of the kind of strict lockdowns we did earlier, I think the census can be completed within the stipulated timeframe.  

But another lockdown might affect our tight schedule. The key principle of census is that it has to be done at a fixed time, June of every tenth year in our case. If we miss this timeline, we cannot have a comparable data. The delay will affect future censuses. There have been instances of delay. For example, Pakistan could not hold its census for 18 years due to terrorist activities. Having a fixed time is vital for effective comparison.   

Can you give us an overview of census-taking exercise in Nepal?

Nepal started taking census in 1911, all of 110 years ago. Before that, there was the tradition of conducting census in certain areas but not in the whole country. However, the first Nepali census process that adhered to international standards and practices was started in 1952 and took two years to complete. That was the first modernized census held by adopting scientific methods.

Why is census held in every 10 years?

It is an international practice. The UN sets certain standards on how and when countries can hold census. It wants to apply the same standards across the globe and has developed set guidelines for the same purpose. We have to follow those guidelines. Nepal has also been organizing census every 10 years.

If countries do not follow the set guidelines, we cannot have comparable data. For example, we cannot compare the populations of two countries if they do not follow same census criteria. The UN, for instance, clearly defines what constitutes a family—those who live together and share a kitchen—which should be followed by all countries.

Do we have required manpower? 

Since we have been holding census for over 110 years, this is no longer a problem. That was not the case in the initial years. For example, before conducting the 1952 census, the CBS staffs had to go to India for training. Even now, the UN trains officials from all member states, and informs them about emerging issues. It trains you on developing questionnaire and analyzing data. But like I said, these days, we don’t need much training due to our long experience.

What are the concerns of the international community on the census process in Nepal?

This area falls under the jurisdiction of the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA). Even today, the UNFPA provides Nepal with technical support when required. In the past, it even offered us financial help. But now Nepal can fund its own census.

Donor agencies and international community want to ensure that questionnaires meet international standards. Sometimes, the international community wants to focus on some specific class, community, or area. For example, LGBTI is one area of international concern. CBS also seeks feedback from international agencies on emerging issues, which is natural as well.

How inclusive is our census process?

This is an evolving process. When we talk of inclusion, we need to consider factors like gender, castes, minority groups, etc. We started collecting data on caste and ethnicity from 1990s to ensure broad representation. The latest issue, of course, is LGBTI, in line with the global trend. The basic principle of census is that the questionnaire should be simple and easily understood. It is also difficult to collect information on some sensitive issue, for instance reproductive health of women. So we avoid them. Yet our priority is to dig out as much data as possible on all issues related to social inclusion and gender.

Can you enumerate some reforms that we have initiated in the Nepali census process over the years?

This is linked to the political changes and development of the country. After 1990, we started collecting data on various castes and communities as well as on physically-challenged people. Similarly, more priority was given to people’s educational and economic status after 1990. I already mentioned one previous shift in 1952, when our census-taking became more scientific.

How has the census system of Nepal adapted to the new federal setup?

During the last census in 2011, the country was already a federal state but the three-tier governments were yet to be formed. So we did the census based on old state structure. Later, the data were converted to make them suitable for a federal structure. I don’t think there has been much change in census-taking in Nepal in recent times, save for greater emphasis on social inclusion.

How does the new constitution guide the census process?

The constitution says new census should reflect the federal structure, and datasets have to be prepared and analyzed accordingly. Similarly, we have to have comparative data on provincial and local governments. The analytical part of census will also be expanded.

How are CBS datasets made compatible to government goals?

Our census is comprehensive. We collect data on many areas and so the state can ask CBS to analyze particular areas. For example, the new government has given social security top priority. To implement its social security scheme, many types of data—for instance on the age and distribution of senior citizens—are required. The CBS can provide segregated data from center to ward level.  

What is the current status of coordination between CBS and other government agencies?

We invest a lot of time, energy and resources in carrying out census so the government must make sure it makes maximum use of hard-gathered data. There should be maximum analysis, which has not been the case traditionally. The census has rather been turned into a ritual.

Why are we so weak on the analytical part?

First, the government hardly ever tells CBS what type of data it needs for effective implementation of its policies and programs. If the state demands, CBS will be obliged to provide the required data. CBS produces many reports based on census data, and most of these reports are filled with numbers and tables and charts. If the numbers were to be interpreted and analyzed, it would be useful for maximum number of people.

How political is the census process? For instance, in the past, there have been accusations of ethnic and religious bias in census.

We hear some people say that the number of adherents of certain religion has been artificially decreased or increased. But these are baseless accusations. There could be technical glitches and human errors but the information provided by respondents are never distorted.

What about influencing of staffs deployed in data-collection?

That is not impossible but still improbable. During the previous census, there was a misinformation campaign about CBS misrepresenting the speakers of certain mother tongues. Similarly, inaccurate information was spread on Maithili and Hindi languages. Mainly in the districts that now fall in Province 2, there were attempts to politicize some issues, but they were later resolved. Such issues could reemerge during the next census so CBS should properly train its staff. Any effort to influence census must be dealt with there and then. But I don’t think this is a big issue here in Nepal.

There are demands that citizens in the Kalapani region also be included in new census.

We have already issued a new political map that clearly shows Kalapani, Lipulekh and Limpiyadhura as falling within Nepal. So, in this light, CBS must hold a census there. But since this is also a political issue, it is the government that should decide whether or not to do so. CBS cannot make the final call on this.

Were there any initiatives in 2011 to hold census in Kalapani area?

When we were preparing for the 2011 census, a Kalapani local came to see me. He had with him maps and documents showing the areas that had been encroached upon. He demanded that census be conducted there. I saw his documents and maps, which were genuine. After that I talked to our representatives in the National Planning Commission but got no response. I don’t think the commission forwarded this proposal to the government for consideration. Had the government directed us to do so, it would have been our duty to carry out its order. Now, there are again talks about holding census there but CBS cannot do much without a clear government directive.

What are the areas we need to improve upon to make the census process more effective?

The basic principle of census is to ensure that no one is left and no one is repeated. To do so, each designated counting area should have around 200 families, and one area should be allocated to one official to ensure collection of accurate data. Before the census is conducted, we should collect actual home addresses, which happens in the US. A comprehensive database of exact houses should be prepared.

The current process of data collection is time-consuming and there are also reliability issues. From filling forms to analyzing data, we have to work in multiple steps and there could be errors. In the coming days, we have to adopt new information technology. In some countries, filled forms are scanned and data churned out. We too must adopt high-tech. Only this will ensure maximal use of collected data.

Are there alternatives to the current census pattern held every 10 years?

We conduct census every 10 years. Once done, the figures are not updated for the next 10 years. But we can conduct daily census. Such a process has already been recognized by the UN, and some countries are already practicing it. Every day, we get updated information on the population, which is known as vital registration. Norway and Denmark conduct no census as their vital registrations serve as census. Now that internet and technology are also widely available in Nepal, we too can do vital registration. As we get real-time data with this, we will have to start following it, sooner or later.

The biggest fashion faux pas you’ve committed?

I look back at my past and find several fashion faux pas. My look and style keep evolving and I don’t like my past looks ever. Maybe that’s what keeps me motivated to be better.

Who would play you in a movie about your life?

Nischal Basnet or Najir Hussain, two of my absolute favorite actors from the Nepali film industry.

TikTok or Twitter?

TikTok any day. It’s lighter, fun and keeps the creative juices flowing, as I have always wanted to be a video editor and director growing up.

What business idea do you think would be super-profitable but you would never want to pursue?

Having a celebrity management firm or starting a Bollywood blog.

What’s something you wish you could stop people from assuming about you?

That I do not struggle in life because of my family background. I have chosen to live my ambitions and shift base to a city (by myself) which is known for its cut-throat competition. I am still working to achieve my dreams.

The most embarrassing thing you accidentally messaged to someone?

I literally messaged my disagreement about a person to the same person instead of sending it to another friend who shared the same feelings about him. <Worst Feeling Ever>

What’s the craziest thing you’ve done in love?

A lot, but probably making out with someone I loved in an open rickshaw in a small town where people would be completely shocked seeing two males do that. Luckily my eyes were closed and I couldn’t see any reactions. Haha.

What three items would you take on a deserted island?

Water, a huge portable battery charger, and my phone so I can vlog about my experience.

If you had a warning label, what would it say?

Never make a mistake of taking my kindness for weakness.

Two things you would change about yourself?

I’d like to change many things but what immediately comes to mind are: 1) Less overthinking, 2) More reading.