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Ujjwal Prasai, a writer and educator based in Kathmandu, has written a biography, translated two books, including fiction, and contributed hundreds of articles to Kathmandu-based newspapers and magazines. As an avid reader with eclectic interests, he has navigated several worlds of academic and literary inquiries with the help of the books he has read. Here, ApEx presents an edited version of our conversation with Prasai on books.  

What book are you currently reading, and what was your last book? 

I usually start reading two to three books at a time; some I race-read and finish, others I go slow and take some time to complete. The last few books I completed reading are Environmentalism from Below: How Global People’s Movements are Leading the Flight for Our Climate by Ashley Dawson; Salman Rushdie's Knife: Meditations after an Attempted Murder; and The Cooking of Books: A Literary Memoir by Ramachandra Guha. I took considerably longer to finish the first one by Dawson as I took copious notes from the book; it did not take much time to finish the other two memoirs written in a lucid flow. I am currently rereading Annie Proulx’s novel Barkskins, and the other book I have just started reading is Doppelganger: A Trip into the Mirror World by Naomi Klein. 

How often do you switch genres or mostly stick to one kind of writing and accidentally read other genres? 

Genre-wise, I am very eclectic. I read as much fiction as I read academic and literary non-fiction. However, I always look for exciting blends like rigorously researched but written with the style of literary fiction or adopting the approach of popular writing, hardcore political writings written with poetic flair, and historical details written in very lucid prose like the writings of Ranajit Guha. After reading many academic, jargon-laden, or challenging writings, I pull poetry anthologies from my shelf. I have collected a few dozen of them in several languages: English, Hindi, Nepali, and some Urdu. 

Though a colossal number of academic writings continue getting published, it is said that very few people read them. Do you love reading academic stuff, or is it the compulsion driven by your academic job?  

I don’t judge a book based on its pages, number of footnotes or endnotes, bibliography or mechanics, etc. There are lovely books that are thick, and there are others that look like pamphlets but are fascinating and significant. For example, Paulo Freire's ‘Pedagogy of the Oppressed’ cannot be dismissed just because it is relatively thin, or maybe Simon De Beauvoir's ‘The Second Sex’ cannot be discarded for not having pages of references at the back. Again, how can you say people don't read thick books like ‘Writer, Rebel, Soldier, Lover’, a biography of the writer Agyeya written by Akshaya Mukul, for being dense, having a lot of references, and hundreds of endnotes? Indeed, some books have specific audiences trained in certain areas of scientific inquiry, and they understand those books more than others. The books written by anthropologist Mark Liechty, like ‘Suitably Modern’ or ‘Far Out’, tell fascinating stories of Nepal and have all the required academic paraphernalia, including some jargon and technical terms. These books are being read by many who want to know Nepal better. Since I have learned a lot from academic books, I read them with admiration and respect. 

How often do you rely on reviews published in the popular press or the bestseller lists they publish weekly or monthly? 

I always scroll the news and magazine outlets for book reviews, and even in academic journals, I read book reviews first, and then I go to other articles. They help me a lot in deciding which books to pick and which not to prioritize. However, I am cautious about literary and academic echo chamber reviews. Reviews published as promotional materials don’t help much. I usually don't read bestseller lists, and they are not the guides I rely on. I typically list readings from the titles I collect as I read well-written and researched books; for example, I have prepared a long list of readings from the references of the books and articles I read in the last few months. The first one from the list I am starting in a few days is ‘The Value of a Whale’ by Adrienne Buller. 

It is often said that people are not reading much with the proliferation of digital media and social media platforms. Is it true? 

I have not read any properly done survey or robust research making this kind of claim. Well, this could be based on how people perceive the proliferation and impact of digital media, and maybe there are people who have started devoting more time to scrolling X or Facebook than to reading lengthy stuff. But I don't think reading will cease or dwindle to become negligible in the near future. Instead, digital platforms have added some advantages for the readers; people find several ways to get hold of e-books. I have seen many people reading many books in Epub and PDF formats on their electronic devices. Since we face many crises, including climate change, it is becoming increasingly important to read, think and interact more. I believe that, pushed by the crises, people will read more and think hard; some digital platforms may aid this process. 

Can you recommend some works of contemporary fiction for our young readers? 

I can give you a list of some of the interesting novels I have read in the last few months. Vivek Shanbhag’s ‘Sakina’s Kiss’, written originally in the Kannada language, tells a story of a complex (a reviewer called it dated) masculinity that represents a considerably large number of South Asian men. Another fiction that I recently read was ‘Chinatown Days’ by Rita Chowdhury; I picked this name from Amitav Ghosh’s recent book ‘Smoke and Ashes’. This novel tells the story of the uprooting of a small community of Chinese living in Assam during the war of 1962. Another fascinating work of fiction I read was Teju Cole’s third novel, ‘Tremor’; I call it a rich tapestry of ruminations on art, literature, colonialism and different yet interrelated human experiences. Those interested in thinking about the climate crisis may pick up ‘The History of Bees’ by Maja Lunde; the collage of a dystopian future with enough elements of historical fiction makes us think about the declining population of bees and its causes and alerts us to the alarming impacts it may have on the climate. 

Dr. Satoru Nagao is a fellow (nonresident) at Hudson Institute, based in Tokyo, Japan. From December 2017 through November 2020, he was a visiting fellow at Hudson Institute, based in Washington, DC. Dr. Nagao's primary research area is US-Japan-India security cooperation. He was awarded his PhD by Gakushuin University in 2011 for his thesis, "India's Military Strategy," the first such research thesis on the topic in Japan.

Dr. Nagao also holds numerous other research positions, including director at the International Security Industry Council, senior research fellow at the Japan Forum for Strategic Studies, specially-appointed research fellow at the Japan Forum on International Relations,  research fellow at the Security and Strategy Research Institute for Japan, senior fellow at the Institute of National Security Studies Sri Lanka, and senior research fellow of the Indian Military Review. In this interview with the ApEx, Dr. Nagao talks about Japan-Nepal relationship, Nepal's foreign policy, Indo-Pacific Strategy, China and more.

What is Japan's Indo Pacific outlook ?

The pioneer of the idea of Indo-Pacific instead of Asia-Pacific was former Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe. In 2007, he addressed the Indian Parliament where he proposed the idea of both Indo-Pacific and QUAD. Since then, these two have been the main strategy of Japan’s foreign policy. 

The integrated concept of Indo-Pacific is better than Asia-Pacific because this region is under threat of China’s domination. Indo-Pacific is better than Asia-Pacific when people talk about counter China strategy. QUAD, meanwhile, is a group of all influential powers in the Indo-Pacific, except China. 

Viewing these original reasons that Indo-Pacific and QUAD were formed to prevent China’s domination in the rising region, Japan decided to cooperate with the Indian Ocean region, especially India. The purpose of these concepts is strategic. China’s infrastructure projects under the Belt and Road Initiatives (BRI) created huge debt for recipients and expanded China’s influence in the Indo-Pacific region. China’s project does not purely support local recipients, and it is dangerous for development in this region. A typical example was Hambantota port in Sri Lanka. China’s interest rate was too high, and Sri Lanka could not pay. As a result, Sri Lanka gave China the right to control the port for 99 years. A similar situation happened in Djibouti, and China set up a huge naval base there. There are many similar cases in the Indo-Pacific. 

Thus, Japan has focused on tackling China by suggesting alternative choices for countries. One of the examples was the Matarbari port project in Bangladesh. When China suggested the Sonadia port project, Japan suggested the Matarbari port project to Bangladesh. In this case, the Bangladesh government accepted Japan’s Matarbari port project. Thus, if there is an alternative choice, governments should be careful and avoid falling in the debt trap of China. 

How do you see Japan's engagement with South Asian countries? 

Japan’s support projects in the South Asian region are based on good motivation, which contributes to the development of locals. But at the same time, currently, Japan is taking care of many projects worldwide and cannot share enough money to support locals. Due to global free trade and China’s intended manipulation of currencies, many factories have relocated to China. As a result, factories in other countries lost competition with factories in China. 

The size of China’s contribution is bigger than Japan’s. Therefore, Japan needs to coordinate with the US, Australia, EU, and India now. Japan believes that India’s influence in this region is necessary. For example, when we check the geographical situation, the Chinese side of Nepal is mountainous and difficult to trade, but the Indian side is flat and easy to trade. In this case, the development of Nepal's economy relies on India. Thus, Japan cooperates with India, and Japanese cooperation can contribute to Nepal's economy.

What are Japan's key priorities in Nepal? 

Japan wants to develop the Indo-Pacific as a stable and peaceful region, including Japan as a regional member. Japan does not have any national interest in building the Nagdhunga Main Tunnel. It is an honor for Japan to contribute to the people of Nepal. Cooperation with India has also been strategic for Japan. In this region, India’s influence is strong. However, China has not cooperated with any foreign countries. That is why China’s projects have created conflicts with India. Japan does not want to create such conflicts. Japan’s projects are contributing to the people of Nepal without spending time and resources on conflicts.

How does Japan view China’s engagement with Nepal?

An opinion poll in Japan indicates that 90% of Japanese people have a negative image of China. The Japanese view of Chinese engagements with other countries like Nepal is also very bad. While Japan wants to develop the Indo-Pacific as a stable and peaceful region, China intends to exploit the poor conditions of developing countries for its own gain. Nepal’s cooperation with China is also breaking India's trust. In the long run, China-Nepal cooperation will not be beneficial for both Nepal and India.

What are your suggestions to Nepal in the conduct of foreign policy ?

Nepal wants to be an independent country. That is why Nepali people worry about India’s strong influence sometimes. It is understandable. But in my opinion, cooperating with China was the wrong choice. What happened in Japan can be a good example. After WWII, Japan chose the US side for about 80 years. This is why the US started to trust Japan. A long-term stable relationship can bring mutual benefits. The US decided to export 400 of the latest Tomahawk cruise missiles to Japan, whilst knowing that long-range missiles could be a threat to the US itself. This was possible because of the trustworthy relations between the two nations. 

In South Asia, India-Bhutan relationship is similar. Bhutan gets much support from India because they have stable and trustworthy ties.

China Foundation for Rural Development (CFRD), earlier known as China Foundation for Poverty Alleviation (CFPA) is the only active Chinese NGO working in Nepal. The NGO started its work in Nepal right after the earthquake of 2015 through an emergency response program. Shristi Kafle spoke with Zou Zhiqiang, director of the Nepal office of CFRD, on various aspects of poverty alleviation measures in Nepal.

Last month marked the ninth year of your organization working in Nepal. How is the experience so far?

When I first arrived in Nepal in 2015, I almost felt like it was my hometown. It was similar to any other Chinese provinces like Yunnan and Sichuan, just across the Himalayas. Before coming here, I worked in mainland China for 15 years and then in Ethiopia and Sudan. All those experiences helped me and my organization to start our journey. CFPA came to Nepal immediately after the devastating earthquake of April 2015. At least 28 people worked here in the beginning for relief and rehabilitation programs, while the international department worked together with the Nepali volunteers. Coincidentally, it was also the 60th year of establishment of diplomatic relations between Nepal and China. Besides immediate support, my job was to do research, planning and share proposals for long run support programs, as we realized that people needed us after the disaster. We didn’t work alone, but coordinated with the Chinese Embassy, over a dozen Chinese NGOs, the United Nations Nepal team, and other international donors. When the disaster emergency response team returned in June, it was only me who stayed back because there were many unfulfilled jobs. Gradually, we focused on other areas of work. There were rough roads too, but overall, with the support of our local partners and love of the general public, it has been a fulfilling experience so far. 

What are the major working areas of CFRD at the moment?

 After 2020, our major focus is on rural development. We changed from CFPA to CFRD. We work on health, education, drinking water and WASH, skill development of youth, women and microfinance, school meal and warm kits distribution, among others. We completed reconstruction of three school buildings destroyed by the earthquake in the Kathmandu valley. Last year, we focused our support to earthquake-affected communities in Jajarkot and Rukum West. Recently, we kicked off the first tea project in Nuwakot for value chain enhancement through Chinese machineries and equipment. We have continued serving nutritious meals to around 10,000 students in 52 schools of Dang, Kathmandu and Lalitpur. These are just a few activities. 

From 2015 to 2023, we have spent $10,350,000 in Nepal, and almost 650,000 people have benefited. As the biggest foundation of its type in China, we focus on agricultural industry development, creation of an internet platform to sell agro products and items to cities, tourist villages, and training the local farmers. All these programs were  successful in China. So we are blending these experiences in Nepal as well. 

How is the Chinese NGO different from other NGOs working in Nepal? 

As an NGO, we do not want people to be dependent upon us. Instead, we believe in providing skills and techniques to locals after which they can support themselves. I see that so many I/NGOs talk about rights, but care less about ground reality and livelihood. For instance, when we talk about women’s rights, it means women should be economically independent. We provide them with practical training, we want women to learn, and make money and live a confident and comfortable life. If they are engaged in any agricultural or skill related product, we provide them training on research, marketing, and how to brand their goods and sell at a higher price. For those who do not have any access to financial institutions, we have supported them with basic things like how to use and save money, and open bank accounts. We work closely with the community. I myself spend more than 120 days a year in the field. This is the major difference. We have partnered with over 20 Chinese donor institutions so far. Besides, we have come up with two books as guidelines for other Chinese NGOs who want to work in Nepal. CFRD doesn’t just work alone, we all want to work together to help more Nepali people.

How is the coordination with the local governments and agencies? What are the challenges?

I would say the major challenge here is geography, which is very uneven and even dangerous in some places. It’s easy to work around Kathmandu and other major cities, but to reach far flung areas, the transportation cost is high. And half a year, works are halted by monsoon and monsoon induced disasters. Besides geography and weather, the bureaucratic process is also difficult. Whenever we submit a proposal, it has to go through many channels, and most of our time is wasted just in waiting. The government keeps changing in Nepal, as do the officials in many departments. 

Sometimes, even a single permit could take three years. It’s comparatively getting better in recent times, as I feel the Social Welfare Council is working efficiently. In terms of working with the local governments, it’s quite easy as they are quick in response and management. Local government is more active than the center. Local representatives are from communities, so they come up with important proposals, which are related to the real needs of people, and the implementation part is satisfactory. But the central system is often changing. In terms of other partners, we worked with some 20 NGOS across the country, and we believe their capacity building is also important. So, we are also assisting in capacity building of local NGOs and staff.

You have visited many districts of Nepal. How do you find the living situation and poverty status of people outside Kathmandu? Is it similar to Chinese society?

I have visited at least 66 districts of Nepal, covering mountain, hill and Tarai region. Based on my experience of working in Nepal for nine years, I find that Nepal’s poverty status is better than China's. Decades ago, when I started work in this program, Chinese people were really poor. There was a lack of arable land and the weather was not favorable. There was a problem with the drinking water facility too. Resettlement was a huge challenge. In Nepal, I find comparatively a better situation. When someone has fertile land, and is provided with seeds, at least he will not sleep hungry. The problem in China was more serious. It’s a different kind of opportunity here. There are new concepts and ideas in agriculture and production, and immediately you can reap benefits out of something. This gives me hope. Last time, under the agro support project, we invited an expert team to conduct soil tests and water tests in some places, and found that everything was organic. In China, it would have been filled with chemicals. Thus, organic products in Nepal have a huge market, and they can be sold at higher rates. In Nepal, everyone has at least something to eat. People do not get nutritious food, enough meat or protein, but they do not sleep hungry. It should be counted as a blessing. 

What are the similarities between the Chinese and Nepali way of working for poverty alleviation and rural development?

Poverty is not just about food and housing, but it also incorporates many other components like safe drinking water, education, and basic health care. Thus, the poverty alleviation measure should be multi-dimensional. There should be a solid long-term strategy. Since 1989 till now, we have worked under the robust guidelines. In terms of the Chinese way of working, there is a strong collaboration from the top to the bottom. For instance, the east team of the country works together with the west team and share their experiences and expertise. There was also a provision that the officers needed to work in another province for three years in order to get their promotion. This is how the teams were mobilized to work in backward regions and at the grassroots level. Each country has its own distinctive national conditions, and the policies should be made accordingly. Nepal might have its own strategy, but it can definitely learn from Chinese anti-poverty experiences.

Jeetendra Dev is a leader of the Nepali Congress. As a senior politician, he closely observes Nepal’s foreign policy and international relations. In this context, ApEx talked with him about the various aspects of Nepal-India relations.

How do you see the current state of Nepal-India relations?

Nepal and India have an age-old historic as well as civilizational relationship. This is the relation of emotion, daily life and shared destiny. We are interlinked with an umbilical cord towards shared destiny. Nowhere in the world could we see such a relationship between the two sovereign countries. On top of that we should never forget that this relation was not made by any government, parties or individuals; rather it was made by civilization, history and by the people itself and this bond is unbreakable.

After this we have the Peace and Friendship Treaty of 1950 and the international border is open as well as there is no passport and visa system. We have deep and fruitful political relations too. We have a wider range of dimensions and paraphernalia of socio-economic cooperation. For this purpose the Indian Aid Mission was set up in 1954 which was later transformed into Indian Cooperation Mission in 1966.

Nepal has been receiving socio-economic support and cooperation through this mission in the sector of connectivity, education, health, power generation, irrigation, flood control, empowerment of government agencies, and various community development projects. 

Overall, Nepal-India socio-economic cooperation is growing day by day and bilateral relationship is strengthening and getting deeper in mutual interest and advantages.

What is the current state of economic collaboration between the two countries ?

First of all, I believe that we are not distinguishing and differentiating between political and economic issues. Political issues should be tackled and resolved through political and diplomatic means and it must not be linked with economic issues. Nepal needs development and prosperity. For this we need investment and friend’s financial support. We cannot move forward without the support of our friends. Our public revenue is low, capital expenditure is low, economic activities are slow, investors are not attracting for investment, donors and friendly countries are becoming suspicious on our policies and dealings, we need employment generation activities to boost up the economy and to be graduated in middle income country in 2026 as well as to achieve SDG goals, among others. So the government and the political parties must bring the economic agenda to the forefront in the interest of the people and the country.

What should be our policy to enhance economic relationships?

It needs political trust and deep understanding between the political leadership of both countries and also the investment friendly environment in Nepal. We should be free from the mentality of skepticism and cynicism. In the present international order, bilateral economic relations can only be strengthened and made vibrant if there is a political trust. We only can garner maximum benefit from Indian economic powerhouse when we feel that India is our number one friend. When we enter this new thought, the whole bilateral scenario will move in a new positive direction.

Why are we failing to attract Indian investment?

As I explained above, I again say that for this, political trust and an investment friendly environment are needed. It is so nice that we are going to hold the Third Investment Summit at the end of April. For this purpose we have amended some Acts through ordinances to create an investment friendly atmosphere in the country. Now we have to strengthen inclusive democracy in the country as well as to bring good governance and maintain excellent relationships with our neighbor as well as other friendly countries.

What are your suggestions for the political parties to redefine bilateral relations in the changing context?

We have to review and reassess our whole political, socio-economic and foreign policies. Nepal needs inclusive and participatory democracy. Nepal should bring its socio-economic agenda on top priority. We need an employment generating economy and good governance. There is a need for a good and clean image of the political leadership.

We have to restructure and reorient our foreign policy. New priority should be drawn. We have to review our neighbor policy. I have the feeling that our India policy is not pragmatic and perfect. We have to keep in mind that India is our next door number one friend. If we take such a policy, the whole bilateral scenario will move to change in a new dimension and new vistas of economic cooperation will open and at the due course of time all our other bilateral unresolved issues will be solved.