Arvind Agrawal is a renowned academician who specializes on the relationship between society and market. A PhD in Business Management from JJT University in Rajasthan, he has penned several books on society, market and a wide range of other issues. Pratik Ghimire of ApEx speaks to him about topics ranging from consumerism to religion to market ethics.
Modern society is governed by the market, so much so that the market is eager to sell even death. What is your view on the age of rapacious consumerism?
How pertinent a question to begin the conversation! Death, that you brought up being made a commodity, is eternal. Our Eastern way of handling it has been to live life preparing for Moksha. We always balanced, and in the East we do so to a great degree even today, a balance among four pillars—Dharm, Arth, Kasm and Moksha. Becoming market centred is only a recent aberration. If being greedy for aggregation, monopoly and profiteering is unethical on the part of capitalists, being an excessive consumer is unethical on part of the common person.
There’s nothing wrong in enjoying materialistic comforts, provided we, both the buyers and business owners, can observe the much needed balance, and the good news is that it isn't impossible. Human society is quick in learning, and to trigger the awareness, I've provided starting points in my book ‘Addwit Vyavsay Upanishad’ for business owners, and in a very small handbook Kasht Customers Ke for the common people who are 24x7 consumers.
You talk about balancing Dharm, Arth, Kasm and Moksha, which are part of the Vedic culture. How do you think this culture could be applied to create an ethical market practice?
Let me break up my response into two parts—ethical, vedic. The meaningful transliteration for UNETHICAL BEHAVIOUR is BHRASHTACHAR, which is BH4ASHT+ AACHAR, the behaviour which is a deviation from natural one, the SVABHAV. The materialistic lifestyle that we live today, something that we take as status symbol, something without which we are made to feel non-progressive, has been pushed systematically after industrialization, which took place about 350 years ago. If we go back 1500 and earlier, the East had been the bedrock of prosperity and much superior lifestyle for entire humanity.
Talking in today's glossary, we produced as much as 35 percent of global production. That gets us to the second part, VEDIC. in general when we utter this word, the impression we get is—something that WAS, the PAST, something to do with GRANTH, the scriptures. No it's not so. Vedic, Sanatan, Puratan. One of the meanings of Puratan also is, that which doesn't get old or outdated. So, in whatever way, vedic is even concurrent.
And, looking back as per the needs and circumstances this way of living has given treatises on a wide range of themes—from Kathopanishad to Kaam Sutra, and from Shiv Sutra to Mahabharata, from Vimaniki to Agni Puraan. Perhaps it is in this continuum that yours truly has been used by the Cosmic Being to provide an Upanishad to set right the anarchical forces in the market and economy. Vedic system if we stick to the word VEDIC, for the economy had been socio-nonics—based on a social process rather than industrial process.
This social process had as its hallmarks—(1) the four pillars we already discussed, and (2) a way of life where nature was never exploited; in NO WAY we hurt nature, we rather respectfully nourished it.
Do you think people are ready to adopt that culture? And how shall we ensure that the market will always be the same?
Well, if we are frustrated about materialistic lifestyle, and also we aren’t ready for the Vedic lifestyle, then what alternative third option do we have? There simply isn’t any. We, the people and culture of the East can not only live by balancing among Dharm, Arth, Kasm and Moksha because we have never really given it up; but also in a way onus lies on us to show to the rest of cultures and ideologies that such a balanced living is not only possible but also good for future and nature.
How to ensure that the market remains alive?
Well yes, if you notice, among the four pillars, two elements, the Arth and Kaam, pertain to the market. So, we can be sure that the socio-nomic system will remain alive and kicking. Its appearance could be different because it operates more like a self regulated system rather than one that we see today—the market regulated either by government or by capitalists or jointly by both. In fact that’s one reason capitalists and government may not be too keen to let vedic socio-nonics happen, but let me also quickly caution—it will be a short-sight at least on part of policymaking because colonisation today is practised in form of remote control on other country’s people’s buying capacity. I can detail this up separately.
About 95 percent of the global wealth is controlled by the 5 percent rich. With this imbalance of wealth, will the market ever be ethical?
You’ve brought up the true nature of the scenario into this discussion. If not that extreme like Mahabharata yuddha, we will see (and be part of) at least a major rally of corrections. As far as I can see, this will happen in a very organic manner. I’m saying this based on my experience of interactions with investors and capitalists—many of them too are human beings, and one part of their soul is longing for overcoming the vicious cycle of earning more money. The West has started taking the purpose of capital to quote the title of one book recently published.
In fact I affectionately pity them that the four pillars of Dharm, Arth, Kasm and Moksha have not been available in that culture. Through ‘Addwit Vyavsay Upanishad’, which is less a book and more a framework, we can take one baby step. I'm not saying things will get set right within 1 year or five years. The harm caused by 400 years of industrialised aggression may take anything like one full generation to be corrected, but that will be our gift to our future generations.
According to the laws of nature, only the ripe ones fall and prepare seeds for the next tree. Has today’s market become too ripe or rotten?
How nicely you’ve articulated—ripe or rotten! Superb! I feel a bit incompetent to guess whether the market with its baggage of unethical business practices is ripe or rotten. However I do know that in the same Mother Nature there are worms and bacteria too. For Nature (which is more than trees, animals, rocks and rivers), nothing, mind you NOTHING is too big to tackle.
The day unethical business practices cross that limit, Mother Nature has unimaginable tools, few of that we know—tornadoes, earthquakes, cyclones. All this not to scare, but to draw the point that Nature works in most unimaginable ways, and one of its methods is also to keep correcting human instincts. Time and again we ask ourselves—is whatever that I'm doing right, is it true to my own nature, does it give me the sense of fulfilment? This reflective thinking will get us back to our SVABHAV, the innate behaviour.
By that innate behaviour we truly are not excessive consumers as we've been made to become by the industrialised society. This internal correction, this deep awareness will set the market right. In Vyavsay Upanishad this theme has been covered, and to quote one sentence from there—the nature of Nature is to give more than it received. When we will go back to our own nature of giving more than receiving, the market will automatically start behaving ethically. It is only the unaware who can be manipulated. Let’s be aware.
In the Arth Yudfha, we all are Arjun in our own small way. We cannot afford to remain confused, we cannot afford inaction on our part.
