Former Minister of International Development and Minister of Environment of Norway, Erik Solheim, attended the inaugural edition of Sagarmatha Sambaad at the invitation of the Nepal government. A seasoned diplomat, Solheim has also served as the under-secretary-general of the United Nations and the executive director of the United Nations Environment Program. Kamal Dev Bhattarai and Pratik Ghimire of ApEx interviewed him about climate change impacts in the Himalayas. Excerpts:
What drew you to Sagarmatha Sambaad?
I was invited by Prime Minister KP Sharma Oli. I met him a few months back and he said we are finally making the summit happen. The event had been postponed due to the Covid-19 pandemic. So, the prime minister was very eager, and I said, yes, for sure I want to come. And the main reason is of course that the melting of the glaciers in the Himalayas, which is of enormous importance to the world. These glaciers are feeding all the major rivers. Ganga, Brahmaputra, the Mekong, the Indus, they are all fed by the melting of the Himalayas. And the impact, if this is disturbed, will be enormous. If you take India, China and Pakistan, there are maybe 2bn people living in this region. So, this is one of the most important environmental issues in the world, and it’s very good that Nepal is taking the lead to put this issue on the agenda.
Do you think that this kind of summit could help shape the global perspective, or global discourse on climate change and sustainability?
One summit of course will not change everything in the world. But if you sustain the topic, have more summits, and really bring it into the different global processes, I think it will have a massive impact. Because this is also the third pole. You have the north pole where we live in Norway, you have the south pole in Antarctica, and this is the third pole, with all the ice and snow in the Himalayas. So, to get that perspective out to the world, I think this summit was very important.
Can this kind of event be a common voice for mountainous regions and mountainous countries?
Absolutely, because the issues are the same. Of course, the Himalayas is the number one mountain region in the world, but I’ve been many times to, say, Bolivia in the Andes. In Bolivia, you see skiing tracks, which were built at a time when there was snow to bring tourists. Now, the skiing tracks have no snow. They are just standing there with no use. So, the issues are the same in the Andes, in the Alps, and in many other mountain ranges. But the Himalayas is the most important, the biggest amount of snow, the highest number of people being impacted.
As a former UN Environment chief, you have been in many kinds of climate dialogues. Do you think these kinds of dialogues really help in real world climate actions?
It works only if you can trigger action, and the government can set the direction for action. But you also need business and civil society groups and others to act. What I think is very important is not just to see climate change as a problem, but also as an opportunity for innovation and economic growth. One example is, of course, now over 70 percent of cars in Kathmandu or Nepal are electric. Well, that’s very good for fighting climate change. But it’s also very good for the people here. These cars are more modern, better, higher quality, more tech. They will reduce pollution. Kathmandu is in a valley, as you know very well that you don’t have a lot of wind to remove pollution. It will stay on. So it makes sense to embrace electric vehicles. Nepal is now next to Norway, with the world's most electric cars. Sure, there is China, but China is so big. So in terms of percentages, Nepal is really leading the world. Again, looking for what’s beneficial, both economically and for the environment, electric cars are much cheaper because you spend less money.
Are you really hopeful about the direction the world is heading in terms of climate action?
I think the world is heading in the right direction, but not mainly because of the diplomatic talks, but mainly because of the action of business. Look, China last year added 300 gigawatts of solar energy to the grid. That is 100 times Nepal's entire hydro power grid. So this is enormous. In India, Prime Minister Narendra Modi just launched a scheme for 10m rooftops with solar. Again, that’s huge. And China and India both have understood that climate and environment is not just a problem, but also an opportunity. Now most electric cars in the world are Chinese. This benefits the Chinese economy and environment. It’s the same thing in India. With Modi launching the solar industry in India, it benefits the economy and environment.
What adaptation strategies would you recommend for vulnerable and mountainous countries like Nepal?
Number one, going big on renewables. Hydropower is already big, but there’s a huge potential for more hydropower in Nepal, and that’s also a potential for huge export earnings if you sell it to India. Going big on solar, and then doing even better to protect nature, can also bring economic opportunities. I know that there are disputes in Nepal about the number of tigers, but Nepal has doubled the number of tigers. That can be turned into a draw for tourists, because tourists really want to come and see tigers. You get good jobs while protecting nature at the same time.
We have often heard you talking about green growth. How can developing nations like Nepal grow their economies without repeating the environmental mistakes of the already developed or industrial countries?
The main issue is to understand that renewables are now the cheapest anywhere in the world. In the past, every nation that wanted to grow its economy depended on coal energy. It started in the United Kingdom and spread to Germany, to the United States, to Japan, to China. But now if you switch from coal to solar, you save money. Solar is cheaper. That means a new development path is possible. So for Nepal to really root its economic development in electric vehicles, solar panels, hydropower, that will make a very different pathway forward. Less polluting, but also cheaper and better.
Nepali leaders frequently say that the international community is not paying attention to the impact of climate change on Nepal’s Himalayas. This is one reason the Nepal government organized Sagarmatha Sambaad. Do you agree with this claim?
I think the prime minister and other leaders are right that the support from the international community hasn’t been sufficient. And I think Nepal is very right to put this much more front and center by organizing the Sagarmatha Sambaad.
What are your suggestions for Nepal so that the international community could hear this issue?
It should organize more events in other parts of the world. We have the climate talks in Belém, Brazil. We have the UN General Assembly. We have Davos, the World Economic Forum. We have dialogues in neighboring countries. We have the Raisina Dialogue in Delhi. We have the Boa Forum in China. These are major events where lots of people are coming together. And the Nepal government, with its Indian, Chinese and European partners, could organize many more events putting Nepal and the Himalayas at the center.
The Nepal government had expected for heads of state and government to join the dialogue, but that didn’t happen. What could be the reasons?
Well, I think right now, many leaders are focused on other issues. Chinese President Xi Jinping, for example, is focused on trade and conflict issues with the United States. Prime Minister Modi has, of course, been very focused on the conflict with Pakistan. But the very high level, I mean, the Minister of Environment came from Delhi. A Central Committee member of the Chinese Communist Party did attend the dialogue. Certainly, it will be good to attract even more high level representatives in the future, and I’m sure that can happen.
Since Nepal and Norway are long-time partners, how do you see the current status of these countries’ collaboration on environmental and climate issues?
Norway has supported a number of climate activities in Nepal. A very obvious area is hydropower, because Norway is a big hydropower nation, and so is Nepal. So to look into all opportunities to engage Norwegian companies in sharing the best practice or investing in hydropower in Nepal I think would be a huge, huge opportunity. But there are also others. Hydropower is the biggest opportunity, because Norway has much less. Besides that, anything related to tourism. Nepal has huge tourism potential. I mean, all it has is tourists, but it can get more. So finding ways of getting more value from the tourists, charging them more so you get more and more value, but also, of course, organizing tourism in such a way that it has the least impact on nature.
